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 Post subject: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Posts: 1938
Location: Windsor Gardens
Car(s): TX G180W+T, TE G180W, TG G180Z, Piazza 4ZC1T +more
I had a lot of trouble making my 4ZE1 distributor cooperate with my ECU, so I figured I'd post up my findings to help others in the future. I hope this helps and makes some sense, I've tried to explain things a few times and in layman's terms because it can be tricky to understand in a wall of text. Also, the photos aren't mine, they're a compilation from Google so apologies for blur and/or broken links. Hopefully this will either be sufficient, or at least get you on the right track. It's a lot more information than I had to start with. If you find it helpful, I recommend saving the webpage including any pictures, as they will probably go missing over time.

WARINING:
There is more than one type of 4ZE1 distributor, pending the year of vehicle it was fitted to. I believe the plug and wire colours are the only differences, although it's possible the trigger wheel may be different. Mine has a round 4 pin plug and the trigger wheel is a 360/4.


Okay, some basic information:

- The 4ZE1 distributor can be sourced from 2.6L Jackaroos and Rodeos.

- The mounting plate between the dizzy and the head is specific to the 4ZE1 dizzy. Unless you're 100% sure you already have the right mounting plate, you should grab the mounting plate that's with the dizzy. C1/D1 items have the bolt in a very slightly different place to prevent people from accidentally fitting the wrong type of distributor. Power tools can fix this, but it's far neater and better practice to just keep the correct plate with the dizzy.

- It is an optical trigger, which provides a square output that is comparable to Hall Effect. It should be able to be used where Hall Effect inputs are expected.

- 4ZE1 distributors are locked, meaning they have no timing advance/retard from centrifugal (RPM-based) or vacuum (load-based) sources. Therefore they make a good ECU input without modification. By contrast, the 4ZC1 and 4ZD1 distributors both have centrifugal and vacuum advance, and these models use reluctors (an AC output, generally not interchangeable).

- The 4ZE1 dizzy has a 360 pulse wheel and a 4 pulse wheel. Some ECUs refer to these as CKP and CMP.

- 4ZE1 distributors originally do not have a "home" or TDC marking. They can be modified to have one, and this is fairly easy to do. You need a home/TDC marking to run more than one coil (e.g. wasted spark or coilpacks).


Wiring key:

This is for the round 4 pin plug.

Red: +12V. This is the power supply to the optical module as a whole. Hook it up to an ignition regulated 12V, but try to avoid noise an interference.
Black: -ve, ground for the optical module. Make sure it has a good earth, try to avoid noise an interference.
White: This is the 4 pulse pull-down reference. It should be in a shielded cable for its length to avoid interference. Keep it away from high current wires.
Green > becomes Blue: This wire changes colours on either side of the plug and will be either green or blue. This is the 360 pulse pull-down reference, keep it shielded too!

For the "4 in a row" plug on the actual housing of the dizzy:

I can't confirm this 100%, but I'm pretty confident. I'm pretty sure this wiring diagram shows the correct wire colours and locations for your dizzy.
In text format, here's my understanding. The first stage is the loom/car side, the > second stage is the dizzy side? I haven't looked at one, but the wire colours appear to change at some point.
Pin 1 Black > Black: -ve, ground for the optical module. Make sure it has a good earth, try to avoid noise an interference.
Pin 2 Red > Green/Black: +12V. This is the power supply to the optical module as a whole. Hook it up to an ignition regulated 12V, but try to avoid noise an interference.
Pin 3 Green > Green/Yellow: This is the 360 pulse pull-down reference. It should be in a shielded cable for its length to avoid interference. Keep it away from high current wires.
Pin 4 White > Black/White: This is the 4 pulse pull-down reference, keep it shielded too!

If you have a different wiring plug or just want to confirm which is which, resistance check between terminals until you find a pair with a constant resistance (probably fairly high) that doesn't alter at all when you rotate the distributor. These should be the power wires. I'm not sure if getting them the wrong way around would damage the unit, so I'd suggest doing everything you can to determine which is which, maybe try resistance checking to see if either of them is grounded to the body of the unit... Anyway, once you figure out which is which, supply it with 12 volts and then resistance check one of the remaining two wires to ground. Slowly rotate the distributor; the resistance should change between open (infinite ohms) to closed (very low impedance/ohms) whenever the sensor passes by an open window in the wheel. It should be either 360 or 4.


Output signal:

The two signal wires are a PULL-DOWN signal. This means you need to feed a voltage through a resistor, and into them. When the optical trigger passes through a hole in the trigger wheel, it grounds out the wires. If you just run voltage straight into them, this short could damage/fry the optical sensor. It's imperative to limit the current by putting a resistor on any power supplied. If your ECU supplies voltage for optical/hall effect specifically, it may already have a resistor. My Megasquirt 2 V3.0 ECU did NOT supply any power here. It expected a voltage to already be on the wire. So, I had to wire up a "pull-up resistor" circuit. This means I took a power source (in my case a 12V "engine on" signal shared with the ECU), fed it through a 1000 ohm (1k) 0.25W resistor (I used 0.5W rated because that's what was available), and joined it up to the sender wire I was using (white wire). Resultantly, when the optical sensor isn't passing through the trigger wheel, there's a voltage on the white wire. When the optical sensor passes through a hole, it grounds the wire, pulling it down to just above 0V. The ECU then sees this as a square wave and reads RPM from it. I should mention that after the 1k resistor, the voltage on the dizzy/CAS signal wire was around 5V, and pulls down to pretty much 0V. I'm assuming this is done by the dizzy/CAS, and not the resistor, and that it's designed to take a 12V source and switch it from 5V to 0V. Best to make sure your ECU can handle a 5V switched signal.


Trigger wheel:

The trigger wheel in my 4ZE1 distributor has two outputs. One output is four evenly sized, evenly spaced triggers per distributor rotation (two per crank rotation). This is one pulse per spark. The other output is 360 evenly sized, evenly spaced triggers per distribution rotation (180 per crank rotation). This is a finer and more accurate signal, but not all ECUs will accept it, and the signal would be more prone to degradation and interference at high RPM. These outputs operate on two different wires, so to use both simultaneously, you need to ensure your ECU has two separate input wires.

Since I'm running a single coil, and still utilising the rotor arm and dizzy cap to distribute the spark, I'll be using the four pulse output only, as is, for simplicity.

If you're running coilpacks, wasted spark or just need a home reading, you will need to modify or replace the trigger wheel. Remove the dizzy cap, remove the screw holding the rotor arm on, remove that, unscrew and remove the protective cover and you will see the trigger wheel. You can either replace this wheel with something custom or aftermarket, or you can block off or alter some of the teeth. You could block off all but one of the 360 teeth, giving yourself one "home" reading on that output, and using the 4 pulse output as the finer reading. Or, you could do the opposite, and block off all but one of the 4 pulse output, use that as your home reading, and the 360 pulse output as the finer reading. Another option would be to elongate or join several of the 360 pulse teeth to create a longer "home" signal. Check your ECU's documentation and/or ask the manufacturer what is the most suitable option. I've heard of people using paint to block off holes, if you do this be sure to use wax and grease remover, maybe carefully etch up the surface a bit, and use a high quality etch primer - if the paint flakes off, it will cause big issues.


Here's some random photos from the internet, since every picture hosting site I've used has died sooner or later:

Image

Image

Image

Image

The 4-pin round plug looks like this:

Image

Image

If you have the 4ZE1 dizzy with the plug on the actual dizzy housing, and four pins in a row, I THINK this wiring diagram shows the correct colours, as they're different to the round style plug:

Image

Dizzy with "four in a row" plug on actual housing:

Image

Couple of blurry photos of a 4ZE1 dizzy:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:27 pm
Posts: 489
Car(s): TX Coupe
Good write up man. Good to see you are getting there with the megasquirt.

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:35 pm
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Car(s): IPRA G180 TX coupe, TURBO TX COUPE
mmmm reading and learning!! will be going though this when I do the turbo D1 in the gem.

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 1938
Location: Windsor Gardens
Car(s): TX G180W+T, TE G180W, TG G180Z, Piazza 4ZC1T +more
Cheers Mitch, yeah I now have an RPM input and it's making spark! The fuel pump is cactus so still no go... the replacement should arrive later this week so perhaps fuel and air will combust this weekend.

If anyone runs into trouble with an E1 dizzy, feel free to yell out! I might try increasing the pull-up voltage to 12V on the signal wire for a stronger signal (especially during cranking), I'm pretty confident it will be fine... so I'll update if I have success.

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Location: Windsor Gardens
Car(s): TX G180W+T, TE G180W, TG G180Z, Piazza 4ZC1T +more
Edited, I've changed to a 12V source on the signal wires, it ends up being 5V after the 1k-ohm resistor anyway, I'm not sure if this is the resistor or the distributor/CAS but it works fine. Clearer signal, especially whilst cranking. All is good!

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:14 pm 
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Car(s): IPRA G180 TX coupe, TURBO TX COUPE
have you got the beast fired up yet??

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Car(s): TX SR20DET, TX G200W, Dato 1200 Ute
Keep in mind that the 360 degree slots can be unreliable depending how the ecu is implemented. The signal switches very fast and limits the amount of filtering which can be used. Generally an ecu would use the 360 slots when cranking and then switch over to the inner slots when its running. You dont need a home signal if you output the spark through the distributor since the rotor will direct the spark to the right cylinder.

We implemented a nissan optical distributor on a delco 808 and hit most of the problems I discussed. But it was a prototype aftermarket ignition module, and if anyone else was to try it now it'd probably be a lot simpler! The end result though is that car runs well :)


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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:12 pm
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Location: Windsor Gardens
Car(s): TX G180W+T, TE G180W, TG G180Z, Piazza 4ZC1T +more
Hey guys, sorry for the late reply! I've been through some sagas with the car - got it running then the clutch blew up on the dyno, some people were convinced it was lower end so it was a full tear down and crank back to be inspected but it was all fine, so pointless teardown... Back together and running, went on the dyno and made some good figures but has ignition issues in the top end, the single coil just can't cut it and the wastegate can't flow enough so it's overboosting and blowing out the spark.

Long story short I'm going coilpacks so I will be putting another trigger wheel in the 4ZE1 dizzy. I was only using the 4 pin output and not using 360 at all, incidentally it can be hard to start and couldn't seem to be tuned around so looks like that's why the 360 pin is there in factory form. Apparently the 54mm wheel from ***FWD*** SR20 motors ie Pulsar can be used. DIYautotune sell a 24/1 wheel in the 54mm size so I'll give that a go, hopefully that will have enough resolution for cranking whilst providing the home signal I need! Time for more wiring - I'll need to wire in the extra CAS pickup and three new ignition circuits, wire up the new coils and move them... Fun times ahead but I'm sure this thing will pull good figures, it already has!

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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:42 am 
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Car(s): TX SR20DET, TX G200W, Dato 1200 Ute
Sounds good. I'd recommend ls1 coils. Cheap and very good spark. All cars ive seen (including boosted) with ignition problems they go away after swapping to ls1 coils. Ls2 coils have even bigger spark but they're more expensive and overkill. The coils themselves take a 5v logic level signal and you just need to program suitable dwell. We put these on an rb20 with failing coils and it remained rough on stock tune dwell but once we tweaked it with nistune and burnt a new chip its not misfired since (a couple of years and 1 targa adelaide)


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 Post subject: Re: 4ZE1 dizzy as a CAS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:47 pm 
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Car(s): IPRA G180 TX coupe, TURBO TX COUPE
I'm reading and learning., keep it coming as my brain is like a slowly dripping sponge!!
When I've my physical setup complete for the 4zd1 I would love some help picking a ecu setup suitable for my car.

PS WTB non cracked piazza turbo manifold and any late model 4zE1 head with closed chambers!

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